Early CL Thoughts & Long-term Injuries – What’s The Cost?

Short of Spurs losing and Chelsea drawing, that was as good as it gets football-wise. Sergio Aguero’s red card means he misses our trip to the Etihad under the FA’s totting up procedures; a four-match ban sees him having Christmas at home with the family rather than playing on Boxing day.

Fernandinho also misses the Arsenal game with an automatic three-match ban for his dismissal for violent conduct. Cesc Fabregas wormed his way back into our good books with his provocation of the midfielder but frankly, Kevin De Bruyne did us more favours with his miss from three feet than any red card.

With Liverpool’s self-destruction, it leaves us second which was as good as it could have been. It’s hard to know if I want Zlatan or Rojo hauled before the FA beaks. United face Spurs next weekend and need their strongest line-up to win. Both players deserve bans but whether that’s in football’s best interests is debatable. OK, Arsenal’s best interests…

We have our own matters to attend to. Basel tomorrow is an interesting match for Wenger to ponder. It’s a quick turnaround after West Ham but he doesn’t have that many options to choose from. Aside from David Ospina in for Petr Cech, he has few alternatives to his existing defensive choices. I suppose Gibbs for Monreal but that’s about it.

His biggest issue is that it’s a game we need to win but know chasing victory may ultimately prove a fool’s errand. We’re reliant on PSG dropping a ricket against Ludogorets which seems very unlikely although the 3 – 0 gubbing from Montepellier was unexpected; anything’s possible.

Which is a bit of a quick race through things as they stand. I think Arsène’s biggest issue is whether to start Alexis but I’m sure we’ll get more clues about that at his press conference later today.

One issue he has more time to ponder is what to do with Santi Cazorla. The Spaniard is set to miss another three months which at a worst case scenario, means he’s missed six months last season and four – five this. With a new deal to negotiate, the timing of his injury could hardly be worse.

It makes life hard for player and club. Santi is no spring chicken in footballing terms and at that point in his career where the next deal he signs is most likely his last. He is 32 in a fortnight and even a fully fit Cazorla may be uneasy about what happens next.

Constructing a one size fits all policy for players is extremely difficult. Arsène found that with his over-30s policy a few years back. Each case is different and here’s the ‘but’ you’ve been waiting for. When it comes to injured players, the over 30s are an easier set than most to formulate such a policy.

We’ve been stung in recent years, there’s no hiding from that. Rosicky, Arteta; fantastic players in their prime but rarely fit enough in the twilight years. Do we have room for a luxury player no matter how talented?

Cazorla clouds the issue. We’ve seen how poor the form can be without him but we’ve been good as well; Saturday was a prime example of that. The fundamental problem is the lack of a natural successor. Some believe it’s Jack Wilshere’s eventual role, others say dip into the market and come back with an Isco.

Jamie Carragher made a salient observation yesterday. Wilshere isn’t usurping Mesut Özil from the starting line-up any time soon so playing deeper is an obvious solution.

This presumes we aren’t looking at Xhaka and another in a more direct midfield. Certainly he and Coquelin dominated an extraordinarily poor West Ham on Saturday. That may not be the best performance to judge the future by but offers an example of why the solution isn’t so easy to find.

Every footballer reaches a natural ‘sell by’ date and one aspect Santi has to ponder is whether the English game is too demanding in his final years. I have no issue with Arsenal not renewing his deal so long as there is a coherent strategy to replace him.

A free transfer? Why not; in five years at the club, he’s been a vital cog in the team and this absence underlines that. However, you have to balance that against the recurring theme of injuries. Is he suffering too frequently now? Will that continue and if so, does it undermine his usefulness?

It seems a little cut-throat, missing the human element but that’s football. It always has been that way and no doubt, always will.

Finally, we’ve reached 1983 in Times Of Our Lives on Dad’s Jukebox. It’s a stonking soundtrack, which I have to say surprised me because I always thought of that year as pretty bang average music-wise. Find out more here.

’til Tomorrow.

67 thoughts on “Early CL Thoughts & Long-term Injuries – What’s The Cost?

  1. Pete the Thirst says:

    Send the reserves to Basel. It’s a no-brainer surely?

  2. C says:

    Elneny, Ramsey, Iwobi and Perez should all get the nod against Basel and I would actually start Ox to just to allow him to build on hia goal confidence wise. You know whose not starting…..Ozil and SancheZ.

  3. Orson Kaert says:

    Good morning, thanks Yogi another good one.

    I have a great liking for Santi Cazorla and a deal of sympathy too, but as we’ve seen before in football, aging players seldom recover their previous good form and confidence after severe or long term injuries.

    It’s not just the medical room that they clutter up but the squad itself where places are limited.

    Can we realistically expect Santi to recover enough to play a significant part in the second half of the season? I doubt it. Offering him a contract extension before we see the outcome of his rehab will be an enormous risk. It’s unlikely that he will find alternative employment in January so he would be better off completing his recovery at Arsenal before leaving as a free agent in the summer. I think the club owe him that opportunity, but not a new contract.

  4. C says:

    As far as Santi…

    I think he is such a key cog that a one year deal makes sense as it would give us one last season to find a successor as well as getting from Santi what we can. If we don’t and let him go back and play another 5 years in La Liga(which is very likely given its mote technical and tactical than physical), I think it would be fully deserved.

    Any talk of Jack being the successor should and needs to be placed in the ‘lets see how this loan goes’ because while he is most certainly getting more and more match fit, he hasn’t up until now done anything to make you think he is the heir-apparent. The other thing is where does Arsene see Xhaka because if its in the more CM pivot, then all of this is a non-starter but if its at the DM then I guess discussions will be needed.

  5. Orson Kaert says:


    If Alexis is left behind, he’ll be sprinting down the runway after the plane, he’ll probably get to Basle before the rest of the squad. 😀

  6. Orson Kaert says:

    Orson Kaert,

    The problem Jack gives both Wenger and Howe is where to play him and exactly what his role is. Fitness is one thing but he is not setting the world alight at Bournemouth despite the opportunity offered him.

  7. silvergunner says:

    Santi is a conundrum when fit he is unmatched for technical expertise but all too often his injuries have deprived us of his silky skills. I would offer him a 1 year contract extension for me it’s Ramsey that just seems the odd man out at the moment.
    Against Basel I am 100% sure both Ozil and Sanchez will be rested I think it likely that coquelin will be rested too.
    Is it too early to start speculation on possible Jan transfer.
    Mahrez would still be my shout.

  8. Orson Kaert says:


    No it’s not too early to talk of January transfers, I would hope that any targets we have are already lined up and initial negotiations well under way. It would be nice not to have to wait for deadline day.

  9. C says:

    Orson Kaert,

    Tend to agree about Jack. He doesn’t do the defensive work to play the pivot like Santi or even Veratti but doesn’t seem particularly comfortable behind the striker.

  10. silvergunner says:

    On jack I think he has been steadily improving at AFC Bournemouth and if he continues to improve at his current rate I for one would be happy to see him back at arsenal next season.
    Gotta feel for Giroud he has a tough job usurping Sanchez as the number 9.

  11. Steve Palmer1 says:

    Morning all, Blinding post,
    Santi eh, yeh he has been missed, don’t worry about Santi, Wenger loves him and when he likes someone they get huge leway. Santi will stay if he wants to as Wenger will offer him a year at a time until he has had enough. Lets face it we still have BFG and who knows he may get another year as well.

    My only concern is whether Wenger will go, if he has made his mind up, and to speak the truth there has been talk, and the club have been looking, then no player is safe.

    Jack has to be terific to get back in our side, if we cannot sell him he may come back and sit on the bench, but with a new Manager a clear out may be the order of the day.

    Wenger makes wholesale changes at certain times, i have to say i am not a big fan of that system, no need for it if you have a big squad as we do. One or two changes weekly would give the whole squad regular playing time so never a need to rest players when a cup game comes up. Not a big fan of certain players playing certain comps makes you too predictable. But what do i know.

    After Christmas if reports are right, some of our non playing players should be rejoining the frey Welbeck should be helping in the run in and Per Merts has been well rested, remembering our older players Rosiski Arteta Flamster he used them all right to the end and i expect BFG to play in the new year.

    I have to say i have always been happy with Wenger , but i have a feeling he will go upstairs, so i now feel that a big shake up will take place. Alexis of course will feature and perhaps a couple more but one things for sure, many wont.

    If i was a new manager i would be offloading a few Walcott Jenkinson Debuchy Sanogo Ramsey Wilshere . Personally, i would start to use Holding and Chambers but Arsene will stick with the old faithful but a new man would have different views.

    Sanchez and Giroud plan A and plan B i would keep both but would want people in who can play to their strengths, Sanchez needs feeding and he also needs close support he gets neither, Giroud also needs feeding good in the air and clever footwork but if he flicks on, nobody there.

    Arsene at present has introduced back passing for some reason his positive approach of old has changed to a boring slow pace football , he has stopped the players runs and would rather they stand like statues, no movement passing to a marked man and giving the ball away as much as they can seems to be the order of the day. Surly that has to stop.

  12. Wailesy says:

    Thanks Yogi,

    Santi’s worth a 1 year contract if he wants it. Wenger just might move in January but it will be an unknown bargain basement I feel, which I don’t mind. Draxler wants out in January but I can’t see Wenger splashing more cash unless Ozil or Sanchez go.

    Sanchez/ Ozil/ Kos/ Must/ mon/ Cech/ Xhaka all rested for Basel for me.

    Giroud with Walcott, Ox and Perez might have a goal or 2 between them with Iwobi in the 10 and Ramsey in at 8.
    Holding needs more game time.

  13. Steve Palmer1 says:

    Gardening, catch you later.

  14. Wailesy says:

    Just on Jack. I watched him exclusively on the wknd and like every other game I’ve seen him in for Bournemouth I’m not overly impressed other than The fact he’s lasting 90mins.

    Agree with Steve Palmer 1, I too would ship all those players he mentions which would give us 100 million for a RB and 2 attacking creatives.

  15. C says:

    Steve Palmer1,

    I actually disagree with you about Sanchez not being fed or not having close support; the player himself has actually said Ozil provides that very thing.

    I actually can’t see Mert getting another contract, it actually doesn’t benefit either party especially with Kos having taken over the armband and his performances have stepped up as well. The thing that must be looked at is the fact that Gabriel has shown some growth along with what we have seen form Chambers (who I think is showing himself well on loan) and Holding.

  16. Highbury says:


    Totally agree. Per, for all intents and purposes, has played his last game for Arsenal. I too have been impressed by Chambers. Not so much by Jack and I am a huge admirer of his. I don’t see Jack as the replacement for Santi, who I believe should get another year.

    Talk of Arsene leaving is nonsense. He will be signing an extension to his contract. Unless, we end up in a relegation scrap, which is not going to happen.

  17. C says:


    I’m not sure Mert has played his last game but certainly doesn’t have another contract. Given injuries and even the FA Cup, we could see Mert pop back up. Chambers has developed and is the biggest thing for me is that he is doing it match in and match out at CB and you see the development taking place. I know its unfair, but I thought he would and should have been doing more and he isn’t. I do think that the Jack that we all remember would be fantastic next to Xhaka; but that isn’t the Jack or even close to the Jack that we have seen. Time will tell but I think come Christmas should be when he really starts getting judged based on performances and not just being happy to have made it through 90 mins if he wants to get back into this Arsenal midfield.

  18. nicky says:

    Not sure what Arsene’s policy will be regarding the team for the Basel encounter. PSG must be favourites for a final 3 points although the Bournemouth/Liverpool result only emphasises that “football’s a funny old game”. 😉

  19. Highbury says:


    I hope we play our strongest team in the FA cup, with the inevitability of the “cup keeper” playing of course. That should mean Kos and Mustafi at CB, deputised by Gabriel and Holding. I don’t deny that Per might get a game or two, but all things being equal, I would be surprised to see him in our starting 11 ever again.

    Assuming Gabriel steps up, it’s gonna be titanic battle at CB in the next couple of years. Kos is virtually untouchable at the moment. Realistically, for Chambers, Gabriel and Holding, we are looking at a minimum of two seasons before potentially making it into the starting 11. But that’s the beauty of football. No guarantees.

  20. Highbury says:


    I just hope the selection is guided by the PL game at the weekend. It’s almost certain that we will qualify as second in our group, so need for needless adventures.

  21. C says:


    I think we could see Mert in an FA Cup as the matches start to come thick and heavy especially with Kos’ ability to pick up niggles along the way and if we truly believe we will push for the PL.

    Gabriel will be the key for me, for all the talk of the young CB’s, people forget that Mustafi is only 25 years old and Gabriel is only 26 (I think) so they are the future of our CB’s. Kos is automatic but I think that will most certainly help is the fact that Mustafi takes over and brings the organizing, communicating and more of the positional sense that allows Kos to be Kos and also is great for Gabriel. If we are able to find a LB (sorry, Gibbs defending leaves me more nervous than anything else) our back line will be good to very good for years to come.

  22. C says:

    The other thing for me about the whole Santi situation is what do we make of or is Ramsey’s role in all of this. Surely all the talk of Santi and Jack plays a part in Ramsey as well unless he is strictly back-up to Ozil.

  23. Orson Kaert says:

    It seems that Per Mertesacker has returned to “light training” with the first team, while Bellerin and Giroud are also back in training. Despite the apparent injuries, received on Saturday, Gabriel also trained without showing any ill effects.

    Good news all round. 😀

  24. Orson Kaert says:


    I don’t see Ramsey as a back up for Ozil, he doesn’t have the speed of thought or the nous to play the part, unless he quickly developes a football brain.

  25. Highbury says:


    I have been critical of Ramsey on many levels. He just seems to bring a dissonance to the team with his playing style. Obviously he has some talent. I just don’t think it’s the sort the Arsenal team requires.

  26. C says:

    Orson Kaert,

    I don’t see him there either, but then if he is one vying for the spot vacated presently by Santi, then what does that say because it seems Xhaka is preferred and there has been large talk of Jack; but none of Ramsey.

  27. C says:


    I have been critical of him as well but more for style of play than anything. The question though, is I get all the talk about he is a good player, but I have found it interesting up to this point that Arsene has yet to play him centrally next to either Xhaka or Le Coq but instead use him on the flanks or for Ozil. The other thing is that I haven’t seen many people make a case for him as a pivot which is something else that I guess should be spoken about too.

  28. Highbury says:


    For me it’s very simple why he is not played centrally. He lacks the awareness required in that area of the pitch. He is a player that likes to take at least two touches before he releases the ball and in a team such as Arsenal where speed and timing is everything, it does not work.

  29. C says:


    That’s always been my issue with him in our team, too many touches going nowhere. Its not me saying he isn’t a good player or has qualities, but I think one of the things that is most noticable about our core players (Xhaka, Ozil, Sanchez); they play quickly with minimal touches or if they do, then its driving looking to play it quickly.

    So an inform Jack gets in ahead of Ramsey?

  30. -DFS says:

    Disregarding what I had seen of Wilshere at Bournemouth prior to the weekend (little on both counts) I tried to be objective on Sunday.

    If he wasn’t Wilshere he would have made no impression at all. Bournemouth largely flatter to deceive – for all the pretty football this was their second significant win- and Wilshere wasn’t instrumental in really anything that led to the turnaround.

    The truth – if we did not know Wilshere, no one on this blog or in the Arsenal universe would dream of commenting “we need to keep an eye on that Bournemouth lad…he could replace Ozil or Santi”- no one would have passed a comment on him, period.

  31. Highbury says:


    I would imagine that an in form Jack gets ahead of Ramsey, yes. Jack has penetration, especially when teams park the bus. Because he can take on 2/3 players, he has the ability to unlock defences. His problem though is that Xhaka, in a different sort of way, does the same and more.

  32. C says:

    Also, I don’t really care about anybody’s contract getting done prior to Ozil and Sanchez putting pen to paper on new deals. No offense to Santi, Mert or even Jack; Ozil and Sanchez then everybody else.

  33. C says:


    Yup that’s what I was thinking especially since Le Coq has decided to up his game. Xhaka does and watching players try to get the ball off of him either when he is just shielding or decides to drive forward helps the team. So I guess it will come down to who is in better form because I figure Ramsey’s deal must be coming close to be re-negotiated, so this will be interesting moving forward.

  34. C says:


    That is something that is very interesting take on it. From that perspective you would be right.

  35. Highbury says:


    True. We live more in hope than anything that maybe he can find THAT form he showed against Barcelona years back.

  36. C says:

    Damn, Sanchez made the flight for Basel!

  37. Orson Kaert says:

    I think we may be discounting Wilshire a little early, he has been out for so long that I suspect his confidence in his own fitness is very much on his mind. In what I’ve seen of him so far this season, he’s not getting into the high pressure situations which put him at risk of copping a few heavy tackles. It could be that he has been instructed to take it easy. Eddy Howe did say a while ago that they would be easing Jack into the game and taking care not to risk further injury.

    We need to wait and see how things turn out in the second half of the season.

  38. C says:

    Orson Kaert,

    Orsey my friend, I don’t think anybody is discounting Jack, think its one of those things as I stated earlier, up to the this point he hasn’t done anything but come Christmas and thereafter he needs to start showing forms because at that point its no long going to be, “okay he made it through another 90”.

  39. Orson Kaert says:


    Was he actually in the plane or hanging from the undercarriage as it took off from Luton Airport?

    As to Jack, my sentiments exactly.

  40. Steve Palmer1 says:

    Evening, seems that the Santi post has aroused a bit of attention from some, and so it should. Santi has often given me the impression of a small man who often looks like he’s been eating pies, he gets knocked over quite a bit as well, but the times that little feller makes things happen is unbelievable. He snaps at peoples ankles and has a habit of being there just when you want him, and he does have a pop at goal and usually on target.

    Now some of you are tossing coins up between Jack and Aaron dont know why because neither of them could hit a barn door, i have seen my grandson hit a harder shot than those two.

    Many of you guys have played football i am sure, tell me if you were six yards out even at your age now could you kick a ball on target with a bit of pace, not just that if the keeper is in the middle where do you aim for. Both of those players his corner posts or row Z and for box to box players they offer very little,

    Now for a reason that i dont know, Elneney and Xakha have stopped taking shots, surely that has come from the Manager as i remember on Elneneys first game i remember the commentator say at the end of the match that he had had 20 shots. I have never watched the game back but i do remember thinking this guys a tryer. Xakha as well has hit a couple of rockets but only seems to shoot when we are down, dont understand that.

    Looking back over some of the comments , and reading that some of you also like the centre backs i spoke of, dont forget we still have Beilik as well and he is useful as well.

  41. adam singh says:

    For Basel game I’d go. O spina, Jenks, Gabriel, Holding, Gibbs, Elneny, Rambo, Lucas, Gouird Iwobi. That assumed Giourd is fit. If not Ox on the right and Lucas down the middle. Good opportunity for all these players to prove themselves for the next PL game.

  42. Bill says:

    Santi has been a wonderful player and I like C’s idea of a 1 year contract. The idea that he might be indispensable to our system and our poor form last season can be traced to his loss seems crazy. Most teams would struggle if they lost their leading scorer and we would be dead without Alexis. However we have plenty of creative players including arguably the worlds most highly rated creative midfielder. We should be able to compensate for the loss any of our midfielders including ozil and cazorla. If our system is so fragile and interdependent that every midfield piece has to be in perfect synchronization and loss of one player disrupts what we try to do then we are never going to be consistent.

  43. C says:

    Orson Kaert,

    He was sitting behind Xhaka i Xhaka’s selfie, he certainly made it. Certainly was hoping that his dogs would have held him down.

  44. Bill says:

    I don’t think he is ready to be a first team regular yet but no one mentions iwobe as the cazorla replacement. Clearly iwobe’s future is not as a forward so if he is ever going to be an impact player it’s in central midfield.

  45. C says:


    I think the thing with Iwobi, at least for me is that he doesn’t yet have the defensive part on the flanks yet so moving his to that pivot spot is at least the season after next but offensively he is already a good option there. I could see him getting march time there once Perez and Welbeck are bacj to give us more options on the LW.

  46. Bill says:

    Our starting 11 just had a full week off because of the league cup game and Arsene has been rotating heavily in the last couple months. No one should need a rest. If objective should be to give ourselves the best chance to win the group it makes no sense to rest players who don’t need to be rested. All that said, IMO, the only truly indispensable player is Alexis and arguably ozil and Kos/Mustafi.

  47. Bill says:


    Iwobe had a decent start to this season but just like last year his ability to have any positive influence at LW faded quickly and he has not been useful for the last month or 2. Clearly he the fact that he does not score really limits his long term upside as a forward and LW is not his long term position so it doesn’t make a lot of sense to persist using him at LW. We should use him in midfield in the lower leverage games. The problem is other then the early FA cup games there won’t be many low leverage games.

  48. C says:


    Sanchez doesn’t and shouldn’t start, he played through a knock that he re-aggravated prematch. I know you don’t think so but risk Sanchez now when all signs point to us finishing 2nd or rest him and have for thr long hual?

  49. C says:


    I think you discredit him, he hasn’t been flying like earlier, but then again he hasn’t hurt us while still playijg his part on the LW.

  50. Bill says:


    You play your impact players if they are healthy in the high leverage games. Alexis looked quite well when he was scoring a hat trick at west ham and he just had a full week off with the league cup. It depends on whether or not you consider this a high leverage game or not.

    Iwobe has not hurt the team other then his headed goal for PSG but he has not brought any positive influence to the team in the last couple of months. I know you are not a big fan of Ox and he has fooled us with short runs of good form more times then we can count but he clearly has a lot more upside as a forward so unless Ox can’t play we should use him in the high leverage games. IMO.

  51. Bill says:


    Ox is the starter as long as he is in form. If he hits his wall again then I would like to see Perez have the next shot at minutes on the LW. If Welbeck comes back he also has more potential upside then Iwobe. Not really any minutes left over.

  52. C says:


    Problem is, Ox we have yet to see any real form, yes he got the goal and was a willing runner but very little else came off including his passing so lets not say he is in form. I agree about Perez, I think he should be the starting LW as he is the most likely to score from the LW options and he can pass. Welbeck will be interesting but I think he will be eased back in. Iwobi’s issue is that he didn’t score goals, not that his form dropped.

  53. C says:


    Arsene said it was a bit risky, and normally I agree to play him, but there was doubts about him when he seemed to pull it literally moments before prematch warmups ended. Why risk him in what amounts to a nothing game? We already qualified and unless PSG capitulate, we finish 2nd. Risk him for a nothing match or rest him for the PL push since you have always been one to point out we shouldn’t rotate in the PL?

    Sometimes you have yo save players from themselves. Sanchez has had a knock/minor hamstring thing since he was away at Chile, why not give him the rest and start Perez who will be needed and needs match time?

    Its not that I don’t rate Ox, but there seems to be this narrative, same with Ramsey, that one impressive match means they are in form and should start when lets be honest, he scored a really well taken goal but that goal seems to have wiped away the fact that he struggles to pass to an Arsenal player and his touch is spotty. Extremely talented but its funny that you say Iwobi’s run of matches was always set to end yet Ox has been given long runs(think 22 straight starts last season and only 2 goals) and hasn’t produced.

    Perspective my friend, perspective.

  54. C says:

    I would enjoy a good debate but I’m headed out so we can chat tomorrow.

  55. Steve Palmer1 says:

    just going to bed but logged on, I feel we should always play the best side we can irrespective of what were playing in. Fans spend good money to see Arsenal not the reserves. If Sanchez is fit he should play, he wants to play he wants to earn his money, and fans deserve to see him.

    Any gane Arsenal play should include all the top fit players, thats why we have a squad. What do you get from fielding reserves, losses and that is not what we want. I have gone to work when i am not fully fit, it is a case of having too, so it should be for our players, my governers dont want to hear excuses, they want value for money and so do i.

    We play all season to gey a CL spot and when we play we rest players for what a league game, nobody should be rested, when i played, i played saturday and sunday and still did a 50 60 hour week, how can a man be tired after a 3 hour day and a couple of 90 minute games at a hundred grand a week. Your making them into demi gods and they are far from that.

  56. Orson Kaert says:

    It’s goodnight from him and it’s goodnight from me. Goodnight.

  57. Jonnygunner says:

    Steve Palmer1,

    You didn’t play at the same level though did you Steve?
    Mincing about on the weekend(no matter how hard you tried)is a world apart from Premier League and Champions League football.
    You have to compare like with like.
    You also can’t bring his wages into how tired he should/shouldn’t be-it’s irrelevant.
    Also-60 hours a week is 12 hours a day,for 5 days of the week(it can only be for 5 days as you played football on Saturday and Sunday-I would imagine?)
    What did you do for twelve hours a day?……stack bricks,mix sand cement…or move paperwork around and count paper clips?……it’s all relative mate.
    The modern professional football player is an athlete in pretty much every department,not some geezer that trots around on a weekend to let off some steam.

  58. YW says:

    Right you lot. Which one of you forgot to write today’s post? Eh? Yes, you YW, I’m looking at you.

    Soz and all that – be here shortly.

  59. Steve Palmer 1 says:

    Thank you johnny gunner, your right of course. I wasn’t a pro but in my book 90 minutes is still not a long time no mater what standard you are. But if you say they are tired then so be it. And me I was a night worker and did 7nights a week

  60. YW says:

    Just a reminder, peeps:

    If you type your email addy incorrectly or put a new one into the box, site treats you as if you’re a new visitor and holds comments for moderation.

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