Oh Christ, no Birdkamp this morning? Beats me what we’ll talk about…
The disconnect between the club and its supporters is never more apparent than at the AGM or any forum where supporters are present. No matter how many times the hackneyed lines are trotted out by both sides of the divide, understanding or acceptance of the alternative viewpoints is rarely acknowledged. It seems that a lot of talking takes places but no-one listens.
Of course there are a myriad of views for the club to take on board before they even get to the nuances which offers them some excuse. There is none for the apparent disdain of Peter Hill-Wood for the shareholders and press who dared to question them. The dissent was reflected in increased numbers of votes against board members being re-elected even if it is an empty gesture.
The cacophony of often contradictory views becomes polarised on certain issues. The constant beating of the FFP drum and the promise of a bright new tomorrow when 2014 comes were shown in a different light when Ivan Gazidis did not deny that Manchester City and Chelsea were not amongst the 23 clubs who were not FFP compliant. If they meet that criteria now when they are losing money hand over fist, the regulations are entirely toothless.
Such matters become more focussed when there is a perception / reality about a lack of investment. Questions about the money available to the manager received nuance-laden answers which put Wenger firmly in the firing line. The real picture becomes more apparent if the question is asked about transfers which fell through due to the current salary structure. Perhaps the board are not as innocent in transfer activity as they like to portray.
They have started to strike a better balance with ticket prices. Even so, congratulating themselves on season ticket rises on happening in two of the last seven years are moot when the cost of those seats is among the highest in the world for club football. The club should do more in this sense. Quite what is an interesting point with current finances offering little scope for this. We want the best players in the world. They want the salary to match it. Without the commercial clout that other clubs have, ticket prices falling are an apparently contradictory demand. That simply underlines the tardiness of new deals supporting the first level sponsorship.
Moving the away section to the upper tier offers cheaper seats to home supporters. Whilst the reluctance of the club to do so on the grounds that they want other clubs to treat Arsenal supporters more equitably, is admirable but it falls into the same trap as the FFP trail being blazed; those treading path are often more extreme than the following pack. Arsenal have much goodwill to gain if they make this small change. Making it is an altogether different matter.
Whilst the board and Kroenke made their play to be deeply unpopular, it was left to Arsène to acknowledge supporters concerns which is hardly surprising because despite the differences of the route to success, that is the common aim:
The environment is competitive, difficult and challenging. I think we have to be united to achieve it. I accept every different opinion but it looks to me that the modern world creates [little communities] inside every big community. The multiplication of medias create little groups of different opinions and we see that as well inside these clubs.
But these little communities have to learn to live together for one common thing, and that is the strength of our Club. And I think we have to keep that in mind. We understand that you do not always agree with what we do. But [it’s] still very important that we keep strength and that we keep united for the same thing – the good of Arsenal. Sometimes we can forget that.
I’m sure we can count on you for the whole season and we’ll come up with what we deliver at the end of the season. If you’re not happy, I’m happy to listen to you, and I’m happy to meet you.
Hopefully that promise has more substance than the vacuous announcement of the end of a recession when thousands of jobs are lost.
Some commonsense was applied in highlighting the third place finish last season. This time around was held to be an improvement on then but the recent stutter has led to that being questioned. Failure to beat QPR this weekend will surely lead to deeper questions but will a win bring about a revival of hope. The fragility of the players confidence is reflected in the stands.
There was an interesting change noticeable after the AGM, the prioritisation of a season did not meet with the previous condemnation save for the tiresome trolling of journalists. Qualification for the Champions League is the new black this season. There is a viewpoint which observes that winning the FA or League Cup would engender a winning mentality. Triumphing in a knockout tournament is a lot different to finishing a season as champions; to suggest Manchester City won the Premier League because of the previous season’s Wembley victory is ludicrous. The manager noted that players do not care about a tri-handled trophy, Old Big Ears is the one which matters.
Expectations inevitably rise ahead of the AGM, supporters are going to have their say, the club are going to take the opportunity to put their case. As is the norm, it did not live up to the billing. Kroenke ignored questions, presumably offering proof as to why it makes no difference whether or not he has any vision for the club. My own view is that he doesn’t, being quite content for the board to continue on their path. Does KSE taking a dividend matter that much? The money might well have been used to generate investment in the club but if this happens in place of them taking money from Arsenal surreptitiously, is that apparent transparency not preferable?
Will Red & White offer their alternative universe or has a détente been brokered as Ivan suggested? We shall see but more than anything, a nice win against QPR will bring the only touch of red and white to the world that I want to see.
’til Tomorrow.
It has been suggested Arsenal are going to announce a new kit deal with Addidas, that will eclipse the current deal by some way.
@Henristic at 10:17 pm
Which point? Ambramovich? Nothing other than he has spent close to 2 billion since taking over Chelsea. That’s rather obscene…
I believe the Edelman sacking (for the reasons JJ mentioned) was common knowledge. I know I’ve heard it many times over the years.
The Adidas deal is alleged to be £25 million. If Nike offer the same they would keep the contract.
Henristic – Do I anticipate Roman invested in CFC with the aim of turning a profit – certainly – he bought the business for comparative peanuts from Bates
Do I think that in time Roman expects to cover every rouble and make a handsome profit on everything spent then tick that box too
I would guess with Roman there was an additional “political” aspect to the investment – to provide insulation through an international profile to avoid the fate of Khordovesky (?)
His profile in the UK did him no harm in his recent court case in London
Who knows with Roman though ?
One might ponder why, if it was sheer fun that drew him to CFC, we have never heard one word from the man himself on the topic
George,
Honestly, 2 billion is no more obscene than 500 mill to me in this context, but thanks for the correction.
My point of course was that contrary to Anicoll’s claims, Roman can’t possibly be expecting to make that money back from Chelski.
Blimey, where did all you chaps appear from. Have you been watching Derren Brown?
Let’s agree to disagree on that, Anicoll.
the addidas deal is rumoured to be worth 25mil
the current one is 8mil..
so thats 17mil extra.. it wont even touch the sides..
when you consider the property sold has raised about 150mil over the last few years the new sponsers wont make much difference to how we are currently operating..
so gazidis is talking shite really..
we’d need a manutd type sponser to do what gazidis is claiming..
I think anicoll5 at 10:26 pm is on to something about Abramovich coming here. It makes sense that it’s a safer haven for him than Russia. Although they do still shoot or poison each other with polonium 84 in London…..
That’s 25 million a season. Not sure for how long it runs
I also agree on the PR/political advantages of Roman owning Chelsea.
He’d be complete idiot to think he’ll make 0.5 or 2 billion back though. Again, how the heck does that happen? The most profitable clubs in the world make how much profit a year?
I don’t think we need to disagree H
The interesting thing this year was the huge further roubles that the Russian was planing to put into the new stadium site at Battersea – a project that overall was worth a £ billion
Fun it ain’t – a very long game I think which in time will bring every rouble back and more
As I readily agree though with Abramovich who knows ?
Well .seems we are being fleeced by board members.
Given that they dont take a penny out without it being made public .us being a PLC and all,how are the sneaking these profits away?
I think JJ has really lost the plot.
But I could be wrong.
JJ ,Am I right in thinking your premise is that we want someone to spunk 2 billion pounds up Arsenals wall .In order just to be on a level with the others?
We would then have to hope that Mansour,who is 250 times richer than the Fat man,does not just up the ante.
And you dont give a fuck what sort of person owns the club? As long as we what? Win? compete? what?
i never said they were sneaking profits away george
but they do get paid handsomly
ivan gets a good crack and im not sure what for
the wage bill goes up but we sell our best players because we have a strict wage structure?? and seeing as though ppl often say we add our non playing staff to the wage bill then the whole thing looks abit fishy..
and dont hold your breathe on profits going out publicly, stans not made his decision yet..hes a lying fucker as well becuase hes legally obliged to talk to fan groups since his take over and he said he has but no fucker knows when..
and for the record i think he helped himself to a 3mil management fee when he took control..
as for me losing the plot, you might as well say that about alot of gooners right now..everyone seemed to be singing from the same hym sheet the other morning
the majority are pissed off..some choose not to show it and some chose to ignore it and a minority actually think everythings still tickety boo..
george
you make too many assumptions me thinks..
often wide off the mark..
ive stated my case pretty clear..
look, at the end of the day it doesnt matter what the figures are,
as long as we are using all our resources to help the team towards REAL ambitions then we know we have given our best..trophies or not..
when we are selling our best players to our rivals, announcing 35mil profits and claiming 4th is a trophy and wait two more years… then we ARE NOT using all our resources to help the team achieve real ambitions..
simple really..
why would we need 2billion quid spunked up our wall?
we had a title winning team before we sold robin..
and we’d achieved self sustainability..
i hope the 24 million to hit a brick wall and be 10points off the pace in october was worth it..
and whatever happens everyone knows we are going to be selling players again next summer..
so from that point of view alone the clubs in a mess theres no stability whatsoever and we need someone who can sort it..
JJ what if Arsene and the board had gecided that spending £200 million would only fractionally improve our chances .To the degree that they thought we would be just as far behind?
Would you say “fuck it ,spend it anyway” or would you ask for yet more?
And you dont tell me what we do if we spend £500 million and Mansour decides to spend 5 billion because he is not being had over?
So we keep RVP regardless of his behaviour(because you don’t give a fuck how any Arsenal men behave)and we win the league.
So we are one player short of winning the league? thats what you are saying.?
Fucking good team then if we only need one player .Well done the club for doing that and breaking even
of course they decided not to spend it..
it doesnt matter if you finish 1st or 4th..the prize money is pretty much the same if you win the title or crawl over 4th place line and the cl money is still the same as well
to do our very best and close the 20point gap and try finish 1st we’d have to keep a 30 goal striker and spend around 40mil to have a chance..
but there’d be no profit making in that..
just breaking even and the chance of a trophy..
which they couldnt give a shit about so they sell the 30goal man, make a profit and go for 4th place trophy and it keeps everyone happy cos the fans thank god we just made it and the management pay themselves huge bonuses for achieving the maximum with the mininum..
standard..
we keep rvp cos he decided he was leaving the year before when he didnt renew then and he scored 30goals anyway because he was one of the best finishers this clubs ever seen..
spin it whatever way you want..
the clubs run by cretins who dont know their arse from their elbow and their idea of a plan is to wait two years for something that might or might not happen..
vieira, henry, cesc, rvp..
4 captains in 7 years george..
tell me what well run club with ambition does that..
we’ll never see another tony adams becuase the management wont allow it..
So you don’t think the share value would go up if we won the League?
That is where the real mony would be so short rerm Stan could put us in debt,hike the Share Value ,sell up and make hundreds of millions.
However ,you think he is investing his hundreds of millions to fleece us of some management fees?
OK
no
becuase the share value is dictated by usmanov..
he hasnt invested anything
he bought us with IOUs..
and he couldnt put us into debt becuase usmanov owns 30%
stan would need about 90% to do something like that..
you really dont know what your talking about really do you?
Vieira and Henry were spent ,Cesc went on strike and RVP was a cunt.
We did well to cash in on them.
JJ ,I seriously question your intelligence that you call proven highly skilled,top of their field ,executives “cretins”
I would imagine they are more competant than you and I in every aspect of life .
What ? IOU’s really? and thats interest free is it?
JJ ,stop digging
How could he not put us in debt?
he could authorise any amount of spending as the majority share holder .No one has a veto.
He cant put us in debt????
You really are a bit simple JJ
of course henry was spent..
he went to barca and won a cl
and then he came back last year and beat leeds for us cos without rvp we were shit..
and they havent proved themselves to anyone.all theyve proved is that they dont know fuck all about football and they are so out of touch with the fans its unreal..
more competent than me in many forms of life they may be but when it comes to arsenal football club i love it more..
and work for them for free..
would they??
ive forgot more about our history than what he knows..
dont take it personally george, i know you like ivan but hes a clown..
why do you have to get abusive george?
no he cant put us into debt..
he can take dividends but he cant do what the glaziers did becuase he doesnt own all of the club does he..
simple right back at ya..
JJ ,he can spent what he wants .He cant take personal loans and use us as security .But he can put us in huge debt by authorising spending and borrowing.
What make you think the board cant put a club in debt?
he could authorise any amount of spending?
what fucking planet you on..
are we talking about the same stan or are you just making things up again??
why the fuck would he authorise spending when all weve done is sell shit..
spending..lol
hes the type of bloke who puts tea bags on the washing line..
JJ I said he “CAN” I never suggested he would want to .
You are saying he “cant”
Or are you changing your mind ,now you see you are wrong?And trying to make it seem as if I said something else?
Serious question JJ. Are you drunk?
are you?
im not sure what your getting at to be honest..
im working mainly with facts and your working on ifs and buts and its all getting confusing..
he can spend 100mil if he wanted..
but he hasnt and he wont..
he cant do a glazier..
even if he wanted to..
i think weve been talking about two different things..
and no im not drunk..
Grounded gracious
stop wishing the Uzbek Mafioso to take over. THE ARSENAL.
the sooner we cut ties with his organization and with him the better. You can’t seriously be that naive.
Mansoor and Roman can kiss the money they have spent goodbye. No way in hell it’s coming back.anyway I thought I was decided that these clubs were bought as personal toys for vanities sake and/or political and tax purposes. At least that is what seems most likely.
Wow! Talk about a major spraying of bullets. Did any of them hit the target or did JJ just succeed in sending everyone off to bed?
Morning RK!
No one else up I take it?
Hats off to George for trying to work JJ’s logic.
Surreal.
Morning Andrew.
No, I was up, just had to fix a recalcitrant central heating system.
Enjoy the game today. All my best to ‘The George’ and all who sail in her.
http://www.aclfarsenal.co.uk/?p=9819
Some of us are up Andrew, just typing furiously. Today’s missive has arrived.
An excellent missive it is too!
Will sink a couple in The George for the pair of you!
Wrapping up now, gonna be a chilly one methinks …
Yes, AA, have one for me, we’re not leaving ’til 12.15 so I don’t think we’ll get to The George beforehand.
I think it’ll be pretty cold out on the pavement!
Enjoy the game!
Poodle.
I double checked and you did get the math right.